Gareth Thompson learns how the languages of guitar and cello are apt for interpreting Herman Hesse in a mazy discourse with Bill MacKay and Katinka Kleijn

Two of America’s most inquisitive musicians have joined forces to make a suitably probing album. Chicago-based guitarist/composer Bill MacKay has previously led melodic jazz-fusion projects such as Broken Things, Sounds of Now and Darts & Arrows. He’s also released two acoustic duet albums with Ryley Walker, plus a couple of acclaimed solo outings for Drag City. Dutch cellist Katinka Kleijn is a member of Chicago’s Symphony Orchestra, but is equally at home playing bohemian bars or art institutes. Her solo works include a duet with her own brain waves and a show highlighting the carcinogenic effects of makeup.

Having performed together for several years, the duo finally release their debut recording, STIR. An album of ideas expressed through visceral music, it seeks kindred spirits among the likes of Sonic Youth, Glenn Branca, Zoë Keating and Julia Kent. MacKay’s psych-fuzz writhings and playful skitterings find a perfect foil here in the grandeur and skreaks of Kleijn’s bow strokes. It’s sometimes brutalist, often quite beautiful, with each piece having clarity and a distinct aura. But this is no remote work of art made in avant isolation. STIR’s every quiver reflects a kind of anxiety and dislocation, so common to many of our daily experiences. Loosely designed as a companion piece for Herman Hesse’s novel Steppenwolf, the album could also accompany Knut Hamsun’s Hunger, along with anything by Alexander Trocchi or Sadegh Hedayat. Much like Steppenwolf itself, STIR is a subversive drama that flits between wolfish darkness and human hope.

Photo by Ricardo E. Adame

As a guitarist and cellist recording together, the easy option would’ve been an album of tasteful chamber-folk music. But this safe route didn’t interest you, did it?

BM: No, it really didn’t! And it wasn’t a conscious choice to avoid that, but this is the music that boiled up out of us. It contains the real colours of what we do. I feel we were true to ourselves, whilst also breaking out past the limits.

KK: I think you’re right. We developed a language that came naturally to us and where both our musical interests and sensibilities meet. Because we both love it, we wanted to speak that language.

The album has a conceptual link to Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse. What was it about this novel that inspired your rendering?

BM: Steppenwolf has been with me since I was a child. I always thought the lyricism and sense of tension in it mirrored my feelings when growing up. Harry is on a path and I felt the same – that things were going somewhere, and that despite the turmoil some amazing things were ahead. 

How did you begin working these pieces up for STIR? How much was pre-composed as basic guitar sketches?

KK: Bill composed outlines for the themes of STIR. We created everything around them with a focus on improvisation, always keeping the sketches in mind, as well as the stories and the complex feelings and characters in Steppenwolf.

BM: Yes, it was an amalgam. I started with thoughts on the flow of the piece as a whole; the reference to this spiritual idea of tensions and drama… the arc of it. I had some melodic ideas, like the darker unison lines we play… and since there’s a kind of transcendent light in the novel, I explored progressions which involved that. I had an idea for each song, then as Katinka says we built everything around that together.

Were either of you recording with any sheet music or visual props?

KK: We had a few pages of sheet music in front of us, with the themes. We’d also made a few plans of how to treat those themes. In the recording, we tried to find the timings in our free improvisation for those plans, in the moments that seemed right for them.

BM: Yes, we worked pretty hard on the arrangements and feel of the sketches – and how to approach them through improvisation. The melodic ideas and lines and improvs reflect ideas from Hesse’s book. Those familiar with the novel might notice some titles that reference it.

There’s no obvious sense of tempos or contained rhythms on STIR. Who or what was setting the pace on each piece?

KK: That’s an interesting observation and you are right. We worked a lot with what I’d call, from the classical world, a ‘parlando’ or ‘recitativo’ timing. It’s a kind of rhythm you can’t really write down. We did have a planned sense of timing for some of the slow-moving themes that Bill had written beforehand.

STIR could almost be a soundtrack to the sufferings of our minds, yet there are moments of triumph in there too. Was the intention to create something quite psychological?

KK: Yes, it was to me, because Steppenwolf is a very psychological novel.

BM: I think so also. The record feels really timely. So much seems at stake now and there’s such an undercurrent of suffering and anxiety in the world. The need for release and of triumphing over adversity resonates deeply. It seemed like, yes, let’s keep the mystery but look at this life directly in the eyes.

Katinka, are the varied tones and sensations you extract from the cello inspired by other instruments?

KK: The cello has a large array of overtones and if you vary them you can achieve many different colours. My work in contemporary classical music and improvisation has let me explore varied sounds and extended techniques. It’s also quite incredible how the sounds of cello and guitar can meet in the realm of warmth, distortion, plucking and lyricism. Both our instruments are made of wood and metal, so that’s why we can speak a similar sonic language. It’s fun to let your playing be guided by what your ear is hearing, or imagining, then try to realize this on your instrument.

Bill, this feels like one of your most tense works to date, along with maybe December Concert. Do you consider how an audience might respond to these more turbulent records?

BM: A bit, yeah! I know it’s going to be a challenging work for some listeners. My hope is that the people who find it difficult will listen anyway, find the beauty and enjoy being troubled! Turbulent is really apt. And though difficult in ways, the record reflects many of our same sensibilities. It’s still us. And there’s a range of moods. I’m pleased that we chose to reflect an inner world. 

With just two people involved you can tour this album easily. Does the music require more intimate venues, or will you take it wherever there’s a demand?

KK: We will definitely go where there’s a demand! Different venues do make us play differently, because we always react to the energy of the room and audience.

BM: I couldn’t agree more. Our sound can get very wide and deep, so filling a large room is not difficult, but smaller rooms are great too. I also feel the quality of attention and energy in the room is pivotal. I do hope we can bring this duo to the UK.

Finally, why the title STIR and what’s with those capital letters?

BM: The word stir was really evocative to me… stir the imagination, stirrings in the night, if you don’t stir the pot something bad happens! It was active, an agent. As to the capitals, I think that was spontaneous and looked great. Dan Osborn from Drag City may have created this. He does wonderful design and I think he’s responsible for it. It really stands out and we love the lattice-work cover art by Marko Markewycz as well.

dragcity.com

Gareth Thompson